One thing which is in scarce use in 4E is wandering monsters. It is one of those random things older editions brought to the table in spades. Sometimes rolling random monsters was a pain, and sometimes it was fun. It all depended on the frequency and the chance in my opinion. I never liked rolling a bunch of times for a small chance. I always preferred to roll fewer times with a higher chance. But along with those odds, came the possibility that the party could be overwhelmed. Well, that was just part of the game in the old days. Today, 4E has largely gotten rid of random monsters, in favor of its encounters. Which works out well for the most part. Sometimes skill challenges will have combative results, and some modules include an extra encounter if the PC’s need some XP, or are getting off track.
This brings me to the Short Rest x2 scenario. One of my players, (who will undoubtedly read this) posed the question to myself and the group as to why they don’t take two short rests back to back in order to allow the cleric and warlord to use their healing/inspiring word powers, so that they get more bang for their buck healing wise. Good question actually, since getting more bang for the buck is generally what the party strives for. However I know full well this is not how the game is “intended” to be played. As we discussed I pointed out that the downside of a Short Rest is that you can literally do “NOTHING”. You sit, burn healing surges, chit chat, and that’s it. You don’t loot, search, research, use powers, or cast spells. You are basically sitting down, having a drink and catching your breath, with some possible talk. This takes 5 minutes.
So when a combat is over, 5 minutes goes to sitting on yer butt. Searching, looting, using powers etc. is in addition to this time. So I mentioned that what I feel the purpose of the short rest is an effort by the game to get the party moving along without RANDOM ENCOUNTERS. Now I’ve run all sorts of modules over my stint as DM, and this 4E mechanic of short resting is right about where I’d say, if you take it, and move on, you won’t have to worry about random encounters. It makes it simple for me as a DM, and frankly it works well. However, when a party decided to circumvent this safety, well they begin to play with fire.
This week, they got burned. (Yes, my players, I am grinning and your spoiler reason follows).
So we are running the Scales of War campaign for anyone who hasn’t followed this blog long. They are in the final stages of the Mottled Tower module where they have tracked the evil bad guy Sharshan, through the root tunnels of the Elder Tree. They actually saw him, and he saw them before he stepped through a portal and let his minions try to hold the party off.
This is key, and I’ll explain why in a second. After the party fought the guards they EXTENDED RESTED instead of pursuing. Thus letting the enemy get further ahead.
Well, such wasn’t necessarily the case. They stepped through the portal to find they were on the outskirts of Djamela, and island built by an evil Efreet for controlling Blood Chaos. But the party didn’t know this because nobody tried to history check it/figure out where they were. As they stepped through the portal they were attacked by guards, (whom were there to get them because Sharshan saw them pursuing 8 hours ago). The portal was just outside the low wall of Djamela where they would have to hop on chucks of rock over lava to get through the entryway to the island stronghold.
Well, they had a tough fight, but eventually won. Then they took a short rest. Ok, no problem, you just beat the guards who were set to ambush you literally 60 feet from the entryway, so gather yer thoughts search and move into the fortress right???? Right???? Nope, they short rest again…….
Really??? ( I asked again to make sure, at which time the rule of short resting was re quoted and explained their advantage of doing so would save on healing surges.
ooooooooo K.
Well when they get done, the captain of the guards has arrived with reinforcements; and the party still hasn’t entered the stronghold! I think at this point some of them were, well, a bit miffed. Not sure if they were miffed at me, or the themselves for not objecting, or the person who suggested it. But from a DM standpoint, I gave them the chance to move in and find a hiding place, to change their mind, etc. But once they rolled the dice used the powers etc. it’s concluded they have used a second short rest. So here we go.
a. major bad guy saw you before the portal.
b. you get into a fight with the ambush party set up by said “major bad guy”.
c. the fight takes place 60 feet from the fortress wall.
d. party hangs out for 15 minutes or so after the fight.
e. Fight took place within viewing distance of many structures in the fortress. Including the main central tower (where main bad guy is highly likely to be). Cmon, that’s where they all are!
Add is all up… REINFORCEMENTS!
Well, to say they got their butts kicked would be inaccurate. Truth is they survived, but not without spending more daily powers, more surges, and of course bringing more attention to their presence. This is all on top of the fact that time has been of the essence.
So, how does a DM handle this sort of deviation. Well, I think its fair to say that main bad guy has been alerted to their presence in spades at this point. It’s quite possible they have given him more time to recruit some more help. Which would logically be expected in my opinion. Now resources of course are not infinite, but militia troops can be mustered for sure.
All in all, I think the DM’s should guard against the abuse of taking more than one short rest back to back. I also play in the Id DM’s campaign too, and wouldn’t try this tactic as a player since I think it also goes against the spirit of the game mechanics. Now I admit I’ve found some loopholes here and there, but most of the ones I have found are usually arbitrary compared to timeline flow and the lack of random encounters, which is potentially quite the larger issue. 4E isn’t built to do “random encounters” as a rule, ergo the short rest is given to the party. I think the bigger issue stems from the fact that encounter powers can be used outside of combat. So that makes players want to use them, yet recharge them for the next encounter. This is a line that could use a bit of ironing out in my humble opinion.
I think the outcome was fair for the reasons you mentioned, although the strength of the new forces felt overpowered to me. My primary frustration was the fight took five hours and meant we wouldn’t progress the story further until next session. I like combat A LOT, but combat for hours to teach a lesson sucks. If the fight was against a bunch of minions and one or two leaders, then that seems a better fix. That fight would force the party to expend more resources and demonstrate, “It is not a good idea to double up on short rests.” But it wouldn’t be a grind against multiple monsters for hours. I think the fight featured 12 or 13 monsters; I think maybe 2 were minions. After the additional big battle, some of our players will be forced to take an Extended Rest *again* or stay far away from frontline combat because they are now out of surges. I’m curious how this cycle can end once it starts. My guess during the game was the encounter was slotted for LATER but you decided to move it up; that would be another reasonable option. But it sounds like you added it in.
In my campaign, the double Short Rest is not an option. I’m just going to say, “No.” I already allow players to recover surges through Endurance checks after a few encounters. I think that is fair, and it avoids this type of situation.
The last thing I will add is that our group was breaking for dinner when the decision to short rest twice was made. I think 2 or 3 of the 6 were paying attention. That is not on the DM by any means, but everyone was not aware of the potential consequences. I would have preferred you just said “No” and moved us along! 🙂
Well, i did ask before people left if that was what you all were doing… There were no objections.
By all means people are free to not take the second rest, and move into the fortress on their own. Morgoth would have done it… I asked him… Resting on your enemies doorstep usually results in no good.
The issue here isn’t about “teaching the players lessons.” The issue is about “what would Sharshan do?” Logically, his portal group just got defeated as well as his ambush group. So throwing a token “minion” force against the party would be silly as well as stupid. As an evil bad guy he tells his trusted captain to “take these forces, (4 soldiers, 1 flame shard, and one mindslicer) gather some volunteers (militia), and KILL THEM!”.
That’s what I would do… Reinforcement Force > than Portal guards makes sense because you ran over the portal guards, and reinforcement force > ambush party because you ran over that too.
There were no “true minions” but there were 6 militia mobs, who were level 10 mobs, and they were adjusted for low HP. 28 HP to be exact which is enough to take one hit from most of the party, and likely die in two hits.
The downside for the party was the captain was able to give 10 temp HP to some of them in his range, and the party didn’t finish them off fast enough before the captain was bloodied and did it again.
I think from your perspective, you’ve never had to really deal to much with dungeon re population which is something which isn’t very present in 4E. But when the PC’s deviate (ala taking extra time to pursue), re population is an age old mechanic for D&D games. This whole scenario is set up as a time essential pursuit. Thus far the party has extended rested twice, and then the double short rest. The module is set for maybe one extended rest at worst during that time. Ergo, time is not on your side.
As a DM, saying no isn’t a technique I use often. If you want to try something by all means feel free to try it. There may be consequences, but I don’t want to tell you No. I hate when DM’s tell players no they can’t try something. Give them some odds, let them give it a shot, that’s what stories are made of.
Interesting post.
I’m new to 4e and still learning the rules on short and extended rests. I hadn’t even thought to try and game them in the manner described, nor has anyone else at my Encounters table done so, but maybe Encounters just doesn’t lend itself to it the way a more extended home campaign session might.
I always appreciate reading about how other groups handle the various rules and systems, as it makes me a better player at my own group. Should I ever get up to speed where I feel I can DM, posts like these are certainly helpful for navigating through the many creative things players toss at the DM!
Thanks for the comment. I had thought about this from time to time especially since I play a wizard who has “out of combat” utility powers. So the basic logic I used as a player is, an encounter is an “area”. In the throne room, at the inn, during a fight, or shopping at the armory. Basically the mechanic makes sense if you basically change location, then the powers will recharge. However, trying to perform tasks in the same location back to back, will work by strict reading of the rules. This is something a cleric may do in his church. Heal people, rest, heal people again. It makes complete sense.
However in his church the cleric is protected, and there is no sense of urgency. This of course doesn’t apply to the above scenario. =)
As a DM it is our job to look at what the bad guys would do. How smart are they, what are their emotions telling them, what resources do they have available. We have to make those choices without bias, which is the real trick.
My table and I regularly back short rests together, but whenever I DM or our other main DM is behind the screen, we have encounters in the back of our pocket ready to roll if the party decides to linger overly long, or decides to bust out an extended rest when they shouldn’t. We temper these with our judgement on whether the party really is tapped out and needs that extra rest or extended rest or whether they’re just being overly cautious on their resources. Anyways, the players at our table know that taking short rests, even 1 short rest comes with a risk of discovery and further combat. We’re very strategic about where or how we’ll fort up for an extended rests, not as much with short rests, but we try to be realistic about it. Is this where our characters would actually be taking a quick breath or two? In the end, we often judge it’s worth the refresh in healing and efficient use of our surges (when coupled with healing powers) to back short rests together even if it means if gives the bad guys more time to prep for us. In the end many of us just say more XP at the end of the road!
Exactly, you have to be realistic. And as a DM I have to weigh those things like probability alongside of reaction. I always say that resting is something which should be done very carefully. I always hate to leave a dungeon to rest because of the threat that reinforcements might occupy a room which was difficult to take. I grew up with a DM who was very good at using this against us, and always in ways which made total sense. After all that is what the bad guys should do. Use their best rooms to their advantage isn’t it?
I think so.
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